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Birds of Prey Review BlerdUp 46

BlerdUp

Birds of Prey Review – BlerdUp 46

Birds Of Prey Review of the new 2020 DC comics film starring Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn.This is a Birds of Prey non-spoiler review.


Transcript:

00:00
BlerdUp BlerdUP welcome to the
00:02
show where we talk about nerd culture
00:03
from a BPOV a black POV you can find us
00:06
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00:17
this on Blerd.com a great website our
00:20
partners site full of great nerd content
00:22
from a black cultural lens there's some
00:25
really cool merchandise especially for
00:26
Black History Month so go check them out
00:32
catch us on anchor the tree from with
00:35
all of our streaming content comes from
00:36
that's a ance h o r dot F M we're gonna
00:42
try to make this show more regular
00:44
weekly if possible so you can expect us
00:47
if you live in the USA for our show to
00:50
come out
00:51
Thursday evening and if you're living
00:54
where we are South Korea will be about
00:56
out Friday morning Friday afternoon
00:59
hopefully we'll be more reliable than
01:01
the Iowa caucus come on now and I'm your
01:11
host Brendan and I'm joined again by not
01:16
just Mel but also Mark Eaton whoo we
01:20
have been joined together since the joke
01:21
review in October very excited yeah we
01:35
can fight and we are fighting through
01:37
this coronavirus scare to come and bring
01:39
you all this content scared some people
01:43
but not a mom been messaging me like a
01:50
facebook voice message cuz he just
01:52
figured out how to use them and it just
01:54
says don't eat bats what you think I'm
02:02
over here doing sir
02:03
just eating bats okay yeah and I just
02:06
kind of said went back Thank You uncle
02:07
no Mel was always the river in the
02:09
family now she over there eating
02:17
[Music]
02:18
don't eat bets I haven't heard from him
02:24
in like months like he sends like weird
02:26
kind of hotep amines every once in a
02:27
blue moon it was like hotel these
02:29
pyramid schemes but he cares though yeah
02:38
but I was really tempted to send him
02:41
back a photoshopped picture of me just
02:42
challenged on the back it's like just
02:45
just licking your fingers just like dip
02:51
your hands in some gochujang and then
02:53
just like to show them what I find crazy
02:58
I don't want spent too much time on this
03:00
we have a lot to talk about you I find
03:03
it fascinating that Korea has such
03:05
terrible air pollution and no one cares
03:08
about the mass like you'll have little
03:10
kids going to school and the dust is way
03:13
above 100 120 150 people are on dates oh
03:17
stop these days in this terrible weather
03:21
terrible pollution but the minute just
03:24
four people four people out of 50
03:27
million catch a virus
03:29
everyone is maxed up mm-hmm
03:33
yeah it looks like an outtake from
03:36
Mortal Kombat out there everybody's just
03:39
all sub-zero it up because it's winter
03:40
and everybody's wearing caps and masks
03:42
and long coats so it just looks like it
03:44
looks like a dystopia it does it looks
03:46
like get over here like it really does
03:50
well this podcast is not about the
03:53
coronavirus we're gonna be talking about
03:56
birds of prey which we saw yesterday and
03:59
we're gonna talk about the series finale
04:03
of Bojack horseman so first we're going
04:07
to get into a non-spoilery review of
04:10
birds of prey cuz I don't think there's
04:11
really anything to spoil in this movie
04:14
of importance and then we'll get to
04:16
Bojack and we'll definitely spoil the
04:19
heck out of that yes let's go so I want
04:23
to first talk about bird spray
04:25
this is the Margot Robbie project she
04:30
pitched this to Warner Brothers back in
04:32
2015 I'm assuming during her after the
04:35
filming of Suicide Squad they worked on
04:38
it for three years or she worked on it
04:41
for three years until WB accepted it as
04:43
ready and she is a co-producer it does
04:48
feel like DC is trying to make a
04:50
Deadpool rival with the female lead in a
04:53
sense there's some fourth wall breaking
04:55
a love for a specific food egg
04:58
sandwiches which we'll touch on later
05:00
rewinding time to explain how the
05:02
characters got to a certain points
05:04
over-the-top violence and more the
05:07
director of this is Cathy yan I hope I'm
05:10
saying this name correctly I think so
05:12
she's relatively new she's done some
05:15
short films and she debuted with the
05:17
Chinese film called dead pigs it
05:20
received a Sundance Award as well as a
05:22
hundred percent on Artie the caveat is
05:25
that there are only eight critic reviews
05:28
for it and 25 audience reviews and that
05:31
score is 50% in the Metacritic score for
05:34
that is 59% interesting so she's
05:38
essentially a hired gun in my opinion
05:40
mmm how do you mean
05:41
well there are other female directors
05:44
who have more films under their belt and
05:48
so I wonder I haven't seen dead pigs so
05:50
I don't know how that really translates
05:51
to this movie I saw the trailer for it
05:53
it looks nothing like this movie yeah
05:55
mm-hmm so I wonder why they chose her
05:58
yeah I mean I guess it's that whole like
06:00
emerging new woman director kind of
06:02
thing she's the first female Asian
06:04
director of a superhero movie yeah so I
06:07
just keep that yeah that's something
06:09
that DC can claim to say that they've
06:10
done yeah I guess the writer for this is
06:13
Christina Hassan who wrote bumblebee did
06:16
you all see that movie no it got decent
06:20
reviews but I was so burnt out on
06:21
transformers I just don't care what was
06:23
the Transformers movie just before that
06:25
yeah like samurai transformers I was
06:30
weird yeah metal Boogaloo I don't know
06:33
she wrote a movie called unforgettable
06:36
with rosario Dawson and
06:38
in which both have rather poor
06:41
Metacritic scores
06:42
she's also writing the screenplay for
06:44
the flash and Batgirl is the flash still
06:47
happening apparently so because it keeps
06:49
like B it keeps popping in and out it's
06:51
like yeah well once the Warner Brothers
06:53
had that kind of shake-up mm-hmm
06:55
they have kind of shuffled around there
06:56
their departments and and just their
06:59
overall schedule yeah cuz the thing is
07:02
they I think from what I understand Ezra
07:04
Miller has been cut as the flash and I
07:07
don't know how they're gonna recast that
07:09
now was he good because if you but I've
07:12
been watching a little bit of this what
07:13
is it do you suppose the DC infinite
07:15
unit what's it called infinite universes
07:17
crises or crises on infinite crisis on
07:19
Infinite Earths that's it there's an
07:21
episode there spoiler if you haven't
07:23
seen it but everybody's watched the clip
07:24
on Facebook it's got a billion views
07:26
where our current TV flash meets Ezra
07:31
Miller as the movie flat right and
07:32
there's a whole thing there so I saw
07:34
that and thought oh is he back as the
07:36
flash now I'm confused I thought that
07:38
Ben Affleck was out as Batman that was
07:40
easy but I thought everyone else's snow
07:42
Henry Cavill is definitely out of
07:43
Superman today yeah I don't know anyway
07:47
sorry bird walk us away from that but
07:50
I'm just surprised that she's writing
07:51
the flash because I didn't even think
07:52
that movie was happening right anyway
07:54
let's bird walk back to you birds of
07:55
prey you're welcome you're welcome this
08:00
is free someone sponsors quickly so
08:11
let's talk about this movie does this
08:13
maybe hold up to something like a
08:14
Deadpool which another r-rated comedy
08:17
and does it hold up to what DC has
08:19
already created I want to sort off with
08:22
things that we liked well I personally I
08:26
enjoyed the the storytelling 10 extent
08:30
like I I thought it was quite different
08:33
but at the same time I also thought that
08:35
someone watching this movie could be
08:37
easily overwhelmed by what was going on
08:41
but I liked the way like you mentioned
08:45
earlier how the fourth wall was broken
08:47
in some spots hopefully that's not like
08:50
a spoiler but like
08:52
as soon as you watch the movie you know
08:53
but um I enjoyed the way the
08:55
storytelling went and I enjoyed the
08:57
music I did enjoy some of the music are
09:02
you talking about
09:02
the score or the actual soundtrack it's
09:05
an actual soundtrack yeah the the
09:07
soundtrack is done by all women I looked
09:10
up the actual credits some people that I
09:13
really liked doja cat is in there yeah
09:15
Megan the stallion yeah
09:16
yeah I agree really really good it
09:19
really helped set that that mood for
09:22
this kind of vibrant female kick-ass
09:24
right environment I think that was the
09:28
the soundtrack was a plus but there was
09:30
also a minus for me so I'll probably get
09:32
to that when you get to the minuses well
09:38
I like that it was very effortlessly
09:40
diverse I mean it was really easily one
09:42
of the most diverse superhero movies
09:43
I've ever seen our main crew we've kind
09:46
of got a 5-man been but they're actually
09:47
a five woman band and you have somebody
09:50
black somebody white somebody latina
09:51
somebody ethnically ambiguous although I
09:54
think she's Italian although that
09:55
actress is not and somebody Asian right
09:59
and I think that's interesting it's and
10:00
it's not contrived they're just all
10:03
people with jobs who happen to have to
10:05
happen to get together and do stuff so
10:07
it was an also women director woman
10:10
producer woman pitched women written
10:12
it's I really appreciate what this movie
10:15
was trying to do and it wasn't bad
10:17
mm-hmm it was not my favorite superhero
10:20
movie but it wasn't bad and that was
10:22
really important they're gonna put all
10:24
of these women front and center they're
10:25
going to really focus on diversity but
10:26
it was still a good movie that was nice
10:28
and also I love Mary Elizabeth Winstead
10:32
who plays Huntress she is one of my
10:35
favorite actresses but she just needs to
10:37
be in better things more consistently
10:38
she's probably the brightest spot in
10:40
this movie for me I really love seeing
10:42
her play the role
10:43
I completely agree with both of you
10:46
mm-hmm
10:47
I want to get to hundreds in a little
10:48
bit but I wanted to backtrack just for
10:51
me I think the cast and the acting
10:54
largely works margot robbie really sells
10:58
it as harley yeah no she's struggling
10:59
with this breakup just surviving being a
11:03
mentor in some parts and still showing
11:05
that she
11:05
does have a PhD in psychology she's
11:09
definitely given more range than she was
11:11
given a Suicide Squad true
11:13
Huntress as you said she needs to be in
11:17
better movies the last time we saw her
11:18
was in Gemini man yeah mm-hmm I mean she
11:22
kicked ass in that movie and she
11:23
definitely kicks ass here
11:25
I liked the interactions she had with
11:28
the more relaxed women mm-hmm and big
11:30
changes like with the exchange with
11:32
Harley in the trailer was a bit
11:34
underwhelming there was some trouble too
11:36
like one laugh-out-loud moment with her
11:38
she reminds me of tracks from the first
11:40
Guardians yeah
11:41
it's very straight mm-hmm if they do a
11:43
sequel they should beef up the scenes
11:45
with her yeah because she was great but
11:47
to me I agree she was the breakout
11:48
character who really just needed a lot
11:51
more to do mm-hmm I totally agree
11:54
anything else I mean it was cute it was
11:57
wacky it was fun it wasn't deep at all
11:59
but it was interesting um yeah it was an
12:02
interesting it was better than I thought
12:03
it would be I was really not here for
12:05
team birds-of-prey at all I was like
12:07
this is a sequel to Suicide Squad who is
12:09
spending money on this see students need
12:11
to stop running movies movie studios it
12:14
was better than I thought I actually
12:15
enjoyed it for the most part it was
12:17
decently paced it was under two hours
12:19
yeah never felt like a drag to me the
12:22
woman to me were never overtly
12:25
sexualized in my view I remember in
12:28
Suicide Squad trailer and in the movie
12:29
where Harley bends over to take the
12:32
necklace out the window and it just kind
12:34
of just right her but there's none of
12:37
that in this movie like you can tell
12:38
that the director wanted to make the
12:40
ladies beautiful in their own way but
12:43
not necessarily do it for milkie's yeah
12:47
you could tell it was a woman standing
12:48
behind the camera because you she wasn't
12:50
looking at things in a male kind of way
12:53
exactly I enjoyed the the female
12:57
empowerment narrative and themes in this
12:59
movie more than Captain Marvel like
13:03
every time Captain Marvel was so bad
13:04
that every time we talk about a movie
13:06
with women in it we go back to Captain
13:08
Marvel is it better than Captain Marvel
13:09
or worse and so far they've all been
13:11
better I think that's important yeah I
13:13
give this movie even though there were a
13:15
lot of characters to juggle we weren't
13:17
told who they were
13:19
they actually showed who they were there
13:22
were two particular scenes with the
13:23
women together in the middle of the
13:25
fight and they're handing out hair ties
13:26
so the hair doesn't get in the way that
13:28
was a really cool cute female moment
13:31
there was a fun kind of affirmation
13:33
powwow at the end of film app I was
13:35
really cute too any last things before
13:40
we get into well we maybe not like so
13:43
much no cuz I got something loaded for
13:45
the dislikes mm-hmm no take it away I
13:49
don't understand how DC keeps making
13:52
these 90s movies in the year 2020 okay
13:57
I keep every time I see a DC movie I
14:00
think if this was released in 1997 this
14:02
would be the hottest movie of all time
14:04
but it's 2020 and they are still
14:06
following formulas and visual tropes
14:08
that are really old I don't understand
14:11
it this wasn't as bad as venom in that
14:13
regard but I did have a sense like it
14:15
felt outdated yes like it did not feel
14:18
cutting-edge at all and I don't know
14:19
that it needed to but it just felt like
14:21
an old movie being made now it felt
14:23
almost retro when it sensibilities but I
14:26
think that might be the the point behind
14:30
it like it's I think that's just the the
14:32
style like I I think I understand what
14:35
you're talking about but I think that's
14:37
just the the the style that works for
14:40
this kind of movie and for the
14:41
characters that it's talking about like
14:43
it's because you know it's Gotham City
14:46
but like it doesn't feel like Gotham
14:50
mm-hmm you know I mean so I I know
14:54
you're talking about but I think for me
14:55
it works and it made it pop maybe but I
14:58
don't think it was necessarily
14:59
intentional I just think that it was
15:01
kind of I think it was just that the
15:03
filmmaker didn't know how to take it far
15:05
enough I would agree with you but I know
15:07
that exactly and I think I would agree
15:09
with you except that we have so many
15:11
superhero movies now and the bar has
15:13
been risen so high by things like end
15:15
game and even Wonder Woman even though
15:17
that wasn't necessarily perfect either
15:19
that it just kind of feels like it just
15:22
kind of felt like the people who worked
15:25
on this had never seen a modern
15:27
superhero film except for Suicide Squad
15:30
yeah I think they really
15:33
try it too hard to be cool without
15:34
really being cool mm-hmm
15:36
Harley was made in the 90s of course we
15:38
know Paul Dini Bruce Timm made it for
15:41
the Batman animated series but of course
15:44
Robin was so dark but what was the other
15:47
side of the 90s and their animation and
15:50
just appealing to kids that cool extreme
15:52
bro kind of mm-hmm turtles yeah this
15:55
extreme man mountain dew on a skateboard
15:58
and they kind of put Harley who was made
16:02
who was created in this dark universe to
16:04
put her in this extreme bro bright
16:06
universe mm-hmm and it felt nineties a
16:09
little bit you know really 2009 that
16:12
would have been cutting edge yet I
16:13
totally agree yeah it kind of felt like
16:17
corporate driven you know vibrant colors
16:19
different shades of women corporate
16:22
driven soundtrack a couple trips a
16:23
female empowerment but what about the
16:26
real character arcs and story yeah it
16:30
didn't give us anything extra like I
16:32
mean even looking at all of the other
16:34
Gotham themed movies like all of the
16:37
Batman's and even Suicide Squad was bad
16:39
but it tried to give you something extra
16:41
and this one didn't really it was very
16:44
kind of what it says on the tin yeah I'm
16:46
gonna go back to what you said about
16:47
this movie didn't feel like Gotham it
16:50
really didn't so I she looked up where
16:52
it was filmed and it was filmed
16:53
exclusively in Los Angeles yeah that
16:57
makes sense actually and if you kind of
17:00
if you really try hard to divorce
17:02
yourself in this universe from her it's
17:07
okay but when you look at what Gotham is
17:08
what it represents even Suicide Squad
17:10
gave a better sense of atmosphere yeah
17:13
this really felt like you know he's a
17:15
ray from you know insecure could it's
17:17
walked and said you know for tacos a
17:21
really yeah I feel like Gotham City
17:22
whatsoever true yeah mm-hmm especially
17:25
there's scenes where she's running
17:27
through the streets away from people and
17:29
that was all very like it I thought oh
17:31
that's LA yeah exactly like if Joker is
17:35
Joker was night then this movie was day
17:38
that's what it felt like yeah yeah um
17:43
and they were you know it was shot in
17:45
real-life places
17:47
but it really clashed with some scenes
17:50
that were obviously CG there's a third
17:53
act seen in particular where they go to
17:54
a carnival amusement park like plays and
17:59
it's obviously super dark and CG for
18:01
some reason it felt like you know when
18:03
you you buy a dollhouse and like when
18:06
you fold it out there are different
18:07
rooms but there are different themes and
18:09
sometimes this movie had that going on
18:11
like not everything not all of the
18:15
environments match yeah I think you're
18:18
right but I feel like by the time we got
18:19
to the scenes you're talking about
18:21
you're used to it enough that you're
18:24
just kind of like okay because actually
18:25
at that point it was like oh now this is
18:26
starting to feel that comic-book Harley
18:28
Quinn because all of a sudden it
18:30
visually took on the look a little bit
18:31
more maybe because of where they were
18:34
but yeah I see what you're saying it was
18:36
clearly not the same yeah and that kind
18:41
of leads me to some another problem I
18:43
had that was tonal shifts mm-hmm
18:45
although I think that's one person's
18:48
fault
18:50
music though I think it's one person's
18:53
fault
18:53
I think it's Ewan McGregor's fault okay
18:55
yes knock on it okay first of all he's
18:58
been acting for like thirty forty years
18:59
he still can't do an American accent oh
19:01
my gosh he sounded like Dick Van Dyke
19:09
trying to do some great great movies but
19:24
he was awful in this I was so
19:26
disappointed so bad it was I mean you're
19:32
right you know
19:38
obi-wan went to the dark side hard in
19:39
this movie oh my god and I could cut up
19:42
younglings but he wasn't peeling off
19:44
their faces he never got his hands dirty
19:47
so it's like I never what my things with
19:49
him and the other characters was there
19:52
were so many characters in and plot
19:54
points juggled that we didn't get enough
19:56
time with almost anyone to really
19:59
emotionally invest
20:01
enough or care let me talk about hunters
20:04
I really liked her but I really wanted
20:07
more to really write care right and she
20:10
had some great lines but they didn't
20:11
land as hard as they could because we
20:13
didn't have enough establishing moments
20:15
for what was great about Deadpool was
20:18
that it was focused on weight and the
20:20
cast was small this really just it it
20:25
juggled too many things and to me it
20:27
just I think this kind of just landed in
20:29
a very mediocre way I think not not good
20:33
not bad just very vanilla to me yeah
20:38
yeah it was okay it wasn't bad I wasn't
20:41
and I was expecting it to be bad and it
20:43
wasn't bad but it wasn't as good as it
20:45
could have been it was fun but I won't
20:46
see it again no the other thing about
20:49
that speaking of what you're saying with
20:50
the whole juggling is I found myself
20:52
thinking sometimes okay this is the
20:54
birds of prey movie why are we spending
20:56
so much time with Harley Quinn and part
20:58
of that is that I've never been a huge
20:59
fan of Harley Quinn she's the dumbest
21:01
PhD on earth and I mean she's got
21:04
horrible choices and men and it kind of
21:05
I mean her whole comic and her whole
21:07
character arc in the comics kind of
21:09
glorifies bimba fication and being
21:12
abused I being in an abusive
21:14
relationship in any way kind of this
21:16
she's got this weird Stockholm Syndrome
21:17
with the Joker and like he does some
21:18
horrible things turn in the comic he's
21:20
he straight beats her and she's just
21:21
always running back pudding yeah so I've
21:24
never been a huge fan of Harley Quinn
21:26
and I was kind of happy it was birds of
21:29
prey and not a Harley Quinn movie so I
21:31
was expecting more time with the other
21:33
birds and we spent most of our time with
21:36
Harley Quinn until about halfway through
21:38
the movie right which was I but I was
21:42
hoping for something a little different
21:43
no yeah I wanna go back pretty quick to
21:49
uni McGregor because even though acting
21:53
is acting out the way just as a
21:55
character that the black mask is a lot
21:59
of great buddy it's a pretty important
22:00
Batman villain he's pretty much you know
22:02
he's extremely rich he's a master
22:04
tactician he's a formidable fighter who
22:06
actually can hold his own against Batman
22:09
so I was pretty underwhelmed not just
22:11
with him just being kind of this kind of
22:13
Jesse Eisenberg Lex Luthor version of
22:15
black mass I mean he was just just
22:22
egocentric and whiny in this and it was
22:25
just underwhelming to me he didn't have
22:27
a whole lot of Menace his sidekick was
22:29
way scarier yeah yeah but I don't even
22:30
know he was supposed to and they had
22:32
some kind of weird it seemed like they
22:34
were almost romantically involved with a
22:38
little bit they gave us yeah maybe and
22:40
they never you know they hinted at some
22:41
weird relationship with them but they
22:43
never mm-hmm the villain wasn't very
22:45
well developed no no which is kind of a
22:47
DC thing but they had they cast Ewan
22:50
McGregor they could have done better yes
22:52
absolutely they could have let him be
22:53
British I want to go on to the action
22:57
which I found by and large pretty
23:00
forgettable
23:01
there was one particularly well
23:04
choreographed moment at a prison
23:06
breakout where Harley is using her bat
23:08
like Captain America shield almost I
23:10
thought that was really awesome like I
23:12
would actually kind of rose up in my
23:14
seat like oh wow that's what we're doing
23:15
but it only lasted for about ten seconds
23:19
everything else was extremely boring to
23:21
me yeah if she breaks one more leg one
23:25
more time like that's all she did but
23:29
yeah yeah if it's a spoiler like you
23:32
know no I don't think it is I mean you
23:34
didn't say whose leg got broken so I
23:35
think it's cool but yeah Margot Robbie's
23:38
not an action star and it it's glaringly
23:41
obvious especially when she's up against
23:43
other people who are not action stars
23:45
who are doing better than her like Rosie
23:47
Perez or also Rosie Perez is also what
23:50
30 years older than her or people who
23:53
have more action experience like mary
23:55
elizabeth winstead Margot Robbie is the
23:56
weakest link as far as the action scenes
23:58
go but because this is the Harley Quinn
24:00
and the birds of prey movie we get most
24:02
of our action scenes with Harley Quinn I
24:05
just kind of felt I did look it up
24:07
because I was curious it is an all-girl
24:09
crew except for the fight choreographer
24:11
Oh apparently so one of the one of the
24:15
producers worked on Wonder Woman and
24:16
stepped in and took over some of the
24:18
fight choreography just for some of the
24:19
scenes and he's a guy and you
24:22
tell because I don't think he has any
24:23
idea what it would look like to have
24:25
women fight because it was very like
24:28
there was a lot of like I don't know it
24:29
just didn't quite fit no right so yeah
24:32
mm-hmm I think I know what you mean like
24:34
there was a lot of like body power
24:37
shifting yeah and it didn't like from
24:40
from a martial arts standpoint because
24:42
there's you know there's a lot of you
24:43
know what not flowing through there's a
24:46
lot of martial arts flowing through this
24:48
movie and like it just seemed like is
24:50
that really possible like I get it you
24:53
know it's a hero movie but is that
24:55
really believable and if you don't have
24:57
superpowers I mean we need to get to the
24:59
most glaring problem with the action yes
25:02
and this is what really took it down for
25:06
me this is combat movie but some of the
25:10
scenarios just try to insult our
25:12
intelligence and in too many of the
25:14
action scenes the opposition don't
25:16
really use guns yeah but the heroes do
25:21
and that's interesting they kind of
25:23
don't though mm-hm so in the trailer
25:26
Harley you know single-handedly walks up
25:28
into the police station and literally
25:30
invades a police station oh gosh Gotham
25:33
police station her only weapon is a
25:35
beanbag and gas grenade launcher that
25:38
she has to reload every time she fires a
25:40
shot and it isn't a quick reload there
25:43
is one particular scene where she has to
25:45
launch her up and nearly five cops have
25:47
a hand up their hands up afraid of her
25:49
she even shoots one of them and starts
25:52
to reload the time it took for her to
25:54
reload they could have pulled out their
25:56
guns tasers mace / - stopped her without
25:59
the weapon but they didn't there was
26:01
someone eat that scene right there
26:02
really took me out the film like how can
26:05
an entire police force with an Arsenal
26:07
in their building and on their person
26:10
right not take out this lady especially
26:12
since it wasn't scared to be gritty in
26:13
other ways where I have people peeling
26:15
off faces right heaven forbid a police
26:17
officer draw his gun yeah and shoot a
26:19
white lady like how is this so easy for
26:24
her and I mean just a lot of the you're
26:26
right about the intelligence insult I
26:27
think one of my main problems with the
26:28
fight choreography is that no grown
26:31
woman who has combat training or martial
26:34
arts training at all is
26:36
going to get into a kicking match with a
26:37
man twice her size exact right right
26:39
that's the that's just not gonna work
26:41
you know cuz I mean there's a lot of
26:43
little things like that that just didn't
26:44
really mesh the third act really soured
26:48
it there was essentially a small army a
26:52
bad guys invade a room and they descend
26:57
upon these the ladies again none of them
27:00
had guns none of them had guns and along
27:05
with the poor choreography I was
27:07
legitimately bored because there are
27:09
just no stakes here I thought I honestly
27:13
thought when you see this army coming
27:18
toward the ladies from the outside I
27:21
thought they were gonna have his guns
27:22
Lee's Blazers were gonna work together
27:23
to form a smart plan to beat them may be
27:27
home alone stylers yeah yeah they just
27:31
show up no guns and this just like
27:33
back-to-back fisticuffs
27:35
yeah along with the whole this is not
27:37
how women should really be fighting mmm
27:39
aspect in just pour cry Rafi hmm it it
27:41
really soured the third act for me yeah
27:44
yeah also there's this whole kind of
27:47
deus ex machina at the very end that
27:48
comes out of nowhere there's no context
27:51
at all set for this particular moment I
27:53
think you might know what I'm talking
27:54
about
27:54
yeah there's no context at all set for
27:56
it and nobody displays this kind of
28:00
ability anywhere else in the movie so to
28:02
have that suddenly I think yeah yeah but
28:09
we all know who that character is we do
28:11
but they play it the whole time like
28:13
that character is not gonna be able to
28:15
do that oh so they do they don't they
28:17
don't establish that they have one
28:18
really brief shot at the beginning of
28:20
the film that kind of hints at it but
28:22
why wouldn't that person do that the
28:24
whole time I will say the my date who I
28:28
took to this movie was like visibly
28:31
taken aback when this happened yeah cuz
28:34
if you don't know who that character is
28:35
that makes no sense yeah I told you with
28:37
you so yeah that was I was set up in a
28:40
weird way mm-hmm it mean it's not a
28:43
spoiler but no that's okay I feel like
28:45
some of the things you guys just said
28:46
we're kind of spoilers for some people
28:50
maybe but we didn't say who you kind of
28:51
have to see the movie to know it's you
28:53
know how it is yeah you know if you read
28:54
comic books yeah exactly yeah if you if
28:56
you even look it up on the Internet to
28:58
get a idea of where it fits in the
29:00
universe oh yeah
29:01
all right don't want to see on this too
29:03
much longer but my last big gripe mm-hmm
29:05
that in credit stinger
29:07
I'm telling you yeah do not stay for it
29:12
it'll piss you off
29:13
they played everybody it's it's up there
29:17
with marbles fake out singers you know
29:18
the ant jams
29:20
and ant-man to cap in the high school
29:24
video inspired me at homecoming it's
29:27
worse than all it's to me the worst
29:29
stinger in a comic book movie
29:32
I love furious I literally forgot it
29:35
existed until you guys just mentioned it
29:38
luckily the credits aren't so long it
29:39
isn't like in game where it's like ten
29:40
minutes of credits and then you wait for
29:42
that it's short to get there but it's
29:45
like why am I here
29:46
it's hilarious why am I here yeah
29:49
everyone's got Marvel Syndrome now like
29:51
waiting at was I think this is DC's way
29:57
of saying they just played everybody
30:03
oh the stinger all right just so we can
30:06
move on to two Bojack here you guys if
30:09
you have any closing arguments and we're
30:10
gonna rate this movie on egg sandwiches
30:13
which is Harley's favorite food again
30:18
you know decent performances mediocre
30:20
writing mediocre choreography direction
30:22
I'd give this a three egg sandwiches out
30:29
of five it's up there with bad boys 3
30:33
and it can just cut that kind of
30:34
mediocrity I there's nothing in this
30:36
film that requires a big screen viewing
30:39
like I would just Netflix this movie
30:41
yeah I think my last point that I wanted
30:48
to say was like even though I liked the
30:50
music choices I did not like how quickly
30:54
they changed in the movie for me that
30:56
was a little bit overwhelming okay but I
31:00
think for me for talking about five eggs
31:03
in would
31:04
maybe I feel the same three free egg
31:08
sandwiches out of five yeah yeah it's
31:13
okay see it if you want that's another
31:17
three from me three exempt three
31:19
disgusting-looking exam which is out of
31:20
five but yeah with Armenian I'm here I'm
31:24
here
31:25
that was gross anyway I was well never
31:28
mind not gonna spoil that bit yeah but
31:31
you know um so yeah three egg sandwiches
31:33
out of five for me because it wasn't bad
31:36
but I mean I wasn't mad I saw it right
31:38
but I was okay it was better than I
31:41
thought but not in my favorite movie it
31:43
was honestly one of the better DC movies
31:45
never had recently out of the past five
31:47
DC movies this was maybe pretty high up
31:51
on that cuz I mean if they think out of
31:53
the past five not talking Batman's yeah
31:57
I would put it waiting for his Suicide
32:00
Squad BVS I guess over Justice League
32:11
squad Aquaman BBS Justice League and
32:14
this you think it's better than a
32:16
commune ultimately yes because the story
32:20
hangs together better it was more
32:21
interesting to watch than Aquaman was I
32:24
don't want to watch Aquaman again I
32:26
don't really want to watch this one
32:28
again either but if I was given the
32:29
choice I'd choose this one if it was at
32:31
like a party and it was on I would
32:34
rather it be on then Aquaman was took
32:39
itself a little too seriously
32:40
yeah okay so this budget the budget his
32:45
movie was 97 million dollars around the
32:47
same as Shazam
32:48
so Warner Brothers kind of expecting a
32:50
similar box office return and of course
32:52
there's nothing really standing in its
32:53
way right now sonic comes out on the
32:57
14th oh it comes out next week so we'll
32:58
see how how that how that was that's
33:02
such a romantic movie it's projected to
33:05
make about 50 million domestic this
33:07
weekend so we'll see how that works out
33:08
and we'll see what happens next week on
33:11
our next show right let's take a break
33:13
and just let you guys know of course we
33:16
are on apple pie
33:17
caste and Spotify if you use em a
33:20
podcast give us a review described to us
33:22
let us know how you feel
33:24
help us get to the top of that blurred
33:27
castes pile as it were and without
33:31
further ado let's get into Bojack
33:33
horseman yeah first I want to talk about
33:38
a little bit why it was cancelled many
33:42
speculate that the Animation Studios
33:44
push to be unionized was a factor and
33:48
indeed there was a subplot about
33:50
striking and I believe was it season 5
33:54
mm-hmm
33:55
I don't remember but I do remember the
33:57
subplot about the strike yeah so I don't
34:00
want to go through the entire episode be
34:03
for beat I want to talk about specific
34:05
characters the main characters in this
34:07
how we feel about that we'll talk about
34:08
how we feel about the ending and we'll
34:11
get into more it's more stuff on the
34:13
wing I want to start off with the minor
34:15
characters and we'll build up to the
34:17
main ones with pickles pickle always
34:25
kind of got on my nerves I'm glad they
34:26
kind of put her on a bus early on there
34:28
wasn't really much else for her to do
34:29
and she all the characters who she was
34:31
there to assist in the development of
34:33
didn't need her anymore
34:34
yes oh yeah all right that is true but
34:37
at the same time like I wrote it down in
34:40
my I wrote it down like in my notes hold
34:44
on a minute why you go there yeah it was
34:50
there were two characters who left
34:54
without a real personal goodbye and
34:57
we'll talk about that one next but you
34:59
know mister people just got that that
35:02
text oh I guess we were ever yeah just
35:05
walks out yeah that's it yeah but one of
35:08
the things I like about Bojack horseman
35:10
is that you know not everything has a
35:12
marvelously happy ending not everybody
35:14
gets a chance to say a decent goodbye
35:15
which you know it kind of reflects a lot
35:18
of the reality of human relationships
35:19
which is ironic given that it's all
35:21
animal people but you know what I mean
35:22
yeah yeah I mean sometimes people just
35:25
make an exit and you know you know
35:26
somebody's gone and you never hear from
35:27
them again are you gonna say yeah
35:32
I'm not I'm not sure if we're gonna talk
35:34
about this but like pickles that the
35:36
character herself wasn't like obviously
35:41
wasn't big for me but I think her
35:44
relationship with mr. peanut butter like
35:46
that that episode the dog days are over
35:51
that episode where Diane goes to Vietnam
35:54
and she lists all the reasons to you
35:57
know restart her life or whatever for me
36:00
that had a very powerful impact because
36:04
when that came out I was going through a
36:05
lot of like a lot of similar issues and
36:09
thoughts about my own relationship and
36:11
the end scene where Diane was watching
36:14
pickles and mr. peanut butter together
36:17
and she was describing the feeling of
36:19
watching someone who you loved or who
36:21
you once loved how they embrace someone
36:26
the same way they used to you know hold
36:28
you and it's just it hit really hard
36:31
like I actually cried yeah at that
36:33
moment so even though she wasn't the
36:36
most major character I think that the
36:38
impact that she left the effect that she
36:41
had definitely it did its job
36:44
mhm yeah I like that and we'll get to
36:49
mr. peanut butter a little later and
36:50
more death but yeah he's not necessarily
36:53
toxic he gave her the freedom to be what
36:58
she wanted I don't think he never he
37:00
never controlled her yeah I thought that
37:02
was cool and when it was time to break
37:03
up he let her do what she wanted to do
37:07
that was nice you know not everybody's
37:09
deep and he's very much not a deep we'll
37:11
talk about him more like you said he's
37:13
very much not a deep person yeah and
37:14
sometimes people are just so light and
37:16
fluffy that it comes across as
37:18
self-absorption and he is a bit
37:20
self-absorbed but you know there's
37:21
nothing he's not the kind of person that
37:23
has anything in him that holds somebody
37:26
down so and interestingly enough the guy
37:29
who pickles runs off with the Justin
37:31
Bieber prototype Joey Joey Joey Joey
37:34
Pogo that's his name he he's exactly
37:38
like a younger mr. peanut butter so you
37:41
know it to me there was a certain poetic
37:44
justice to
37:45
but I was bad that she wasn't whining at
37:46
everybody for the whole season
37:48
right what's going to Holly Hawk oh
37:52
that's uh huh that's interesting because
37:56
you never really find out exactly what
37:59
goes down do you I want to know I want
38:02
to know what was in the letter whatever
38:04
it was it was devastating to poor Bojack
38:06
but I kind of like that we didn't know I
38:09
liked that we you know it's sometimes
38:10
but you don't see is more impactful than
38:13
what you see and just kind of wondering
38:16
yeah it's just kind of Wow what did she
38:19
say because she knows so much but also
38:22
she doesn't know everything well she
38:26
sent that letter after the second
38:28
interview right true but yeah you know
38:30
what if Hawk was a big fan of cerulean
38:32
growing up maybe you know would be like
38:34
your brother being responsible when your
38:37
childhood heroes totally that could have
38:38
been the final straw like I'm trying did
38:40
you watched her the first episode she's
38:43
she's really grappling with what she
38:46
knows and man
38:48
I understand how messed up my brother's
38:50
life is was and what he's trying to do
38:53
but it's so hard to like really be there
38:56
for him yeah and you know again not
39:00
everything real life relationships are
39:02
hard real life relationships are hard
39:04
and not everything has a neat and tidy
39:07
ending Holly Hawk has gone but she that
39:09
might not be the case forever she
39:11
stepped out of bojack's life but
39:12
honestly he was kind of stifling her
39:14
yeah he was teaching at her university
39:16
very much like let me be your brother
39:18
but she already had a very large and
39:20
loving family before she ever met him
39:22
and how he was introducing himself into
39:24
it not knowing kind of anything about
39:28
her so I get it totally I think that he
39:34
did that with a lot like I think that he
39:36
did that with all of the women in his
39:38
life like he when he was with them or
39:44
when he you know had interest in them he
39:48
basically used them whoever he knew it
39:52
or not he used them to feel better about
39:54
himself
39:55
and he would try but at
39:58
same time at the same time when he tried
40:03
he tried really hard and it didn't work
40:07
out for one reason or another and then
40:09
you know these women they kind of like
40:12
they kind of figure it out they're like
40:14
oh I want to help Bojack but at the same
40:16
time you know I'm not getting benefits
40:21
by I'm not benefiting from this
40:22
relationship and he's basically using
40:25
them like band-aids and I feel like
40:26
that's what he used hollyhock for as a
40:28
band-aid memory was the season 5 where
40:33
he used her to break into a house to get
40:36
him drugs it wasn't just emotional
40:38
support it was I need you to help him
40:40
with drugs go to jail for this you're
40:44
endangering this person now yeah yeah so
40:48
yeah I will get there but it's going to
40:52
time yeah I don't know how do you feel
40:59
about his race ship with his mom that
41:00
whole arc that was a little strange I
41:02
honestly thought she was dead and his
41:06
what I thought I was really shocked that
41:08
she was actually because it was a
41:11
strange arc and I mean it was
41:13
interesting it was a little bit
41:15
personally resident for me but at the
41:16
same time it was very it was kind of a
41:18
cop-out mm-hm I don't know I don't
41:22
necessarily know that Todd's whole arc
41:24
made much of an impact on me in the end
41:28
it was to me the the weakest of them all
41:31
I agree but I do think that his
41:35
character is impactful for a lot of
41:37
people especially people who identify as
41:39
ace yeah but at the same time I felt
41:44
like his story was kind of additional oh
41:47
yeah but I don't know if it's the
41:49
additional nosov it that was interesting
41:52
to me because you're right he'd
41:53
identifies as ace but he was very much
41:55
kind of a sidekick yeah kind of a wacky
41:57
sidekick
41:58
so even when he got into a relationship
42:00
that wasn't really given the weight that
42:02
a lot of the more traditionally romantic
42:05
relationships were so it was an
42:08
interesting sort of situation there what
42:10
I really liked was how he came around
42:12
in the last episode right and he got he
42:17
noticed that Bojack was uncomfortable he
42:19
got him out of the party in a sweet Todd
42:21
kind of way and they became encouraging
42:24
to poject I remember he was out of his
42:26
life for a long time either because
42:28
Bojack went to jail or he soon want to
42:29
be you know even before that I don't
42:31
want you at my party like yeah I'm you
42:34
know you've you slept with my girlfriend
42:36
yeah yeah she's my crap you you have
42:38
attached my Rockhopper he could have
42:39
been very success with that he's like
42:41
dude this is enough is inna yes but he's
42:45
fine but he came around and he was
42:47
encouraging he talked about Bojack
42:50
beating his sobriety record and then he
42:53
brought up his mom talking about how he
42:54
never thought he would have had a
42:56
positive relationship with her maybe he
42:58
thought about the same with Bojack yeah
43:00
and what changed she did I did or we are
43:03
and the hokey-pokey metaphor mm-hmm
43:06
was classic time mm-hmm but you can
43:08
still feel it it was still heartfelt
43:10
very much say this I think Todd is a
43:13
great example of how to continue to be a
43:16
good friend to somebody but not enable
43:18
them was kind of how almost everyone
43:24
started to come around with him in the
43:25
end yeah totally but Todd has been that
43:27
the whole time like Todd had no problem
43:28
kind of putting the kibosh on things or
43:30
expressing his discomfort with
43:31
situations again and that really sweet
43:33
sort of Todd way but you know very
43:35
forgiving but also very much like this
43:37
is what you're not gonna do like is his
43:40
line about art you know it was meta
43:42
right isn't the point of art less what
43:45
people put into it and more what people
43:48
get out of it maybe or I don't know
43:51
maybe art doesn't need a point could
43:54
that be said for the show what did the
43:56
creator want versus what we are
43:58
projecting and I'm gonna get to a really
44:00
great article I read on vulture mm-hmm
44:02
about what this author put into the show
44:05
or it took our took from the show you
44:07
know it he said you know it was nice
44:09
while I lasted this night you could
44:12
really see Todd's maturity and growth
44:14
like in that episode mm-hmm for sure
44:19
yeah definitely I mean I think that Todd
44:22
was definitely the weakest resolution
44:23
but Todd is Todd and he he
44:26
within the there were so many characters
44:29
that needed something wrapped wrapped up
44:30
by the end of this that somebody was
44:32
going to suffer and unfortunately it was
44:33
him I don't remember what's his rabbit
44:36
girlfriend's name Maude Maude yeah she
44:39
was weirdly awkward and I kind of liked
44:41
it though that was an interesting
44:42
dynamic she kind of lives me yeah very
44:44
much so yeah I kind of wanted to see
44:47
more of her Princess Carolyne I was so
44:57
glad that was such a lovely you needed
45:00
them and with my favorite character Jude
45:10
he looks like oh like a Californian
45:15
Jesus I don't know like my favorite my
45:26
favorite character but like if there was
45:28
any character that could bang from this
45:30
show it'd be Judith I think if there was
45:32
any other character you could bang from
45:33
the show would be bestiality true but
45:42
but yeah I was I was pleasantly
45:46
surprised by both the way that they gave
45:48
you to more of a personality and more of
45:49
a character arc and the season yeah and
45:51
also I mean it was just nice I liked how
45:53
drama-free Princess Carolyn's resolution
45:56
was she's living in such a state of high
45:58
drama the whole show you know I'm in
46:03
love we're getting married we work
46:04
together she worked so hard her entire
46:07
life against like sexism and against you
46:11
know all these failures getting to hold
46:14
her down exactly and it's just like wow
46:17
that that was quite I'm gonna use her
46:21
story for like my own I really like you
46:25
mentioned Jama free you know Bojack in
46:27
her at the dance and he his confession
46:29
about anticipating a disaster that that
46:32
he could help mm-hmm and he said you
46:35
know it would be better if if I could
46:37
helped you out and then she says you
46:39
know what it would be better free
46:40
you exactly it's better this way yeah
46:43
and I just love yeah exactly and I like
46:45
that for her and also liked it we'll get
46:47
to Bojack scroll clear but he also
46:48
accepts it yeah right and that is growth
46:51
yeah I think a lot of everybody's
46:54
interactions with Bojack in the last
46:55
episode and over the course of the
46:56
season it's very much about having
47:00
everybody's world stopped revolving
47:02
around him so we very much get the sense
47:03
these characters have stopped basing
47:05
their lives around this nucleus of this
47:07
very toxic person and it kind of off
47:08
doing their own things and are better
47:09
for it you know I think people are often
47:12
drawn to stars or to people who look
47:14
like they have a lot of clout or a lot
47:17
of ability people who you know people
47:21
who seem to have it all together and
47:23
that you know people will make their
47:25
whole life revolve around that kind of
47:26
person and not realize that that's not
47:28
all it's cracked up to be until you know
47:29
it's too late yeah like look at the way
47:32
people follow like mega pastors for
47:34
example or Instagram stars you know
47:39
YouTube stars anyway I liked she
47:43
confessed her anxieties about her
47:45
marriage losing a part of herself and
47:48
bojack's response to gain there's growth
47:50
there you know your past self thought it
47:51
was good idea so listen to her you know
47:54
that really sweet exchange you know
47:55
because she's the smartest woman I know
47:57
and you talked about being friends but
48:00
also having keeping that distance and he
48:02
was talking about making a comeback as
48:03
an actor he says I know some really good
48:05
people who can help
48:06
yes I'm gonna step out from this but
48:11
definitely I mean everybody's kind of
48:13
disengaging out of Botox orbit and it
48:15
needs to happen everybody's shining
48:16
their own star yeah totally
48:19
she made an interesting commentary
48:23
everyone in this town has short memories
48:25
it's the best and worst thing about
48:27
people right I feel like that's so true
48:30
about life in general I always say that
48:31
about politics the best tool that any
48:33
politician in America has is the
48:34
American people short memory hmm cuz I
48:37
mean really it's true it's true mr.
48:39
peanut butter a lot wasn't giving it to
48:41
mr. peanut butter but his big moment was
48:43
his conversation with Diane which broke
48:45
my heart but it was also heartwarming
48:48
mmm mr. peanut butter was excited and
48:51
happy for Diane as she talked about her
48:53
boyfriend guy
48:54
hmm you know she talked about this
48:57
feeling liking us when she always felt
49:00
like me and that's healthy reflection
49:03
and then PB says he always push for an
49:07
Austen ease relationships even when he
49:09
felt that it wasn't a good idea and now
49:11
that he's single he's learning how to be
49:13
me and he apologized for trying to
49:16
downplay the problems in the
49:17
relationship when she was truly
49:19
dissatisfied he even asked her how she
49:22
feels to beat herself in her current
49:24
state like he's such a like I really
49:27
want him to win too and even if he's
49:30
single right now that's a win just
49:32
trying to discover yourself doesn't
49:34
always have to be tied to being with
49:35
someone of course not yeah but even so I
49:38
think the thing about mr. peanut butter
49:40
I feel like in his mind he's always
49:42
winning so you know I don't know I don't
49:45
necessarily he's just not a deep person
49:46
he's very light he's very floaty and
49:48
everybody knows somebody like this who
49:49
yeah you know even if things are going
49:51
terrible they're always going to be
49:52
looking on the bright side of it yeah
49:54
and making the best of it no matter what
49:56
oh yeah and you know the beginning of
49:58
this of the whole series that was really
50:00
annoying mm-hmm but now I think as a
50:02
collective audience we're kind of
50:03
evening out it's like you know what
50:05
that's bad yeah because I mean mr.
50:07
peanut butter is the only optimist in a
50:10
boatload of genuinely miserable people
50:12
but even though he maybe should be
50:14
miserable he never really is he just
50:16
kind of takes things in stride and by
50:17
large she's the most successful them all
50:19
exactly mm-hmm yeah I liked Diane's
50:23
quote she said you can live your whole
50:27
life like a puzzle your whole life is
50:29
filled with pieces that don't fit you
50:31
spend so much time feeling that you
50:33
don't fit that that feeling becomes your
50:35
home but you wake up one day feeling
50:37
that you don't feel that way anymore and
50:38
it's jarring at first you don't trust it
50:42
but then gradually you do and this is
50:45
the heartbreaking part for me because as
50:47
you all know I went through a
50:48
devastating breakup last year and she
50:51
said it's funny if we met each other as
50:54
people we are now things would be
50:56
totally different between us and
50:59
everyone has that feeling of man
51:02
me and his person broke up we learned
51:04
some lessons or at least I did and if I
51:06
met that person the
51:07
I am now met my ex mm-hmm back in the
51:11
day we great and it's a struggle to kind
51:14
of grapple with that to know when to
51:18
move on I guess yeah I guess I saw it a
51:22
little differently because I've had a
51:23
lot of relationships where you know at
51:25
first I'm like are we gonna be able to
51:26
be friends after all of this is said and
51:28
done this is clearly not gonna work out
51:30
and it's nice when you can finally have
51:32
a conversation where you're like you
51:33
know what we're not going to be the best
51:35
of friends we're not gonna be in a
51:37
relationship but we have each other's
51:39
best interests at heart and that's
51:41
always a lovely conversation to have
51:42
when you finally get there and I really
51:43
I really like that they had that moment
51:45
I mean that's a very real thing for a
51:47
lot of people something else about mr.
51:49
peanut butter before we move on I just
51:50
wanted to mention the thing about mr.
51:52
peanut butter I think is that he's the
51:53
only neurotypical character in the show
51:57
what do you mean by that meaning
51:59
everybody else has some sort of like
52:01
everybody else is no way typical to some
52:03
degree they have either some sort of
52:04
anxiety or anxiety depression autism
52:07
other issues right everybody else has
52:09
something else going on and mr. peanut
52:12
butter maybe it's the only one who's not
52:14
who's but who's not sorry that's not the
52:17
right phrasing who is neurotypical would
52:20
you say that I don't know to be on Tara
52:22
line her anxiety and her stress and I
52:25
don't know the Todd is either I mean I
52:27
think with this whole issue with his
52:28
mother and kind of attachment issues I'm
52:30
not a psychologist but just looking at I
52:32
think the reason mr. peanut butter comes
52:34
across as so light and fluffy and
52:35
weirdly optimistic is because I think
52:37
he's meant to be painted as the only
52:39
character who doesn't have anything nor
52:42
way typical or what I don't know what
52:44
the other word is like for for actual
52:46
disorders but people don't like saying
52:48
that anymore but I don't know what the
52:50
word the preferred nomenclature is but
52:53
like he doesn't but mr. mr. peanut
52:55
butters that meant to be kind of the
52:56
normal one quote-unquote got it and I
52:58
think that's why he comes across the way
52:59
he does is that really like what what
53:02
what normal quote unquote normal people
53:05
are because I'm like I wish I could be
53:06
like I have no idea but I know that the
53:09
are that the writer is definitely
53:10
grappling with a lot of pretty serious
53:12
mental illness and neuro a to pissah t
53:15
that's the word I think
53:16
well stressed you yeah in his I know
53:18
there's been articles about it and I
53:19
think because he's definitely
53:21
a member of that community and he writes
53:25
some of the characters intentionally
53:26
that way so I I'm kind of wondering if
53:30
that's why mr. peanut butter has so
53:32
little depth in a way but also is so his
53:38
life is fairly easy all things
53:40
considered I don't know mmm no I
53:42
definitely read that it's it was growth
53:45
for both them to be able to do that and
53:47
it's a good it's good that people can do
53:49
that mm-hmm but I think people do still
53:51
have that anxiety like either you come
53:54
to that anxiety or you learn to grow
53:55
from it the idea of you know I've
53:57
learned
53:58
Kandice work out and even if you want to
54:02
go back to that person and you're RT
54:04
with someone else is it unfair to the
54:05
person that you're building with now
54:07
yeah to leave them for some that you
54:09
have more history with and yeah but I
54:12
think the thing I liked about their
54:13
conversation is that neither of them had
54:15
any desire to go back to each other yeah
54:16
it was very much a post-mortem for their
54:18
renewal right but there was that that
54:21
line where she asked you know we could
54:23
be totally different
54:23
mhm and she was kind of waiting for
54:25
peanut butter to kind of say yeah we
54:28
could we could have been too you know
54:33
accomplished book writers she kind of
54:35
winced yeah at this yeah and there was
54:38
that acceptance I'm sure even if he's
54:40
yeah I don't even if I said we could be
54:42
back together I don't think she would
54:43
have made a play for it yeah but I think
54:46
maybe she's still kind of wanted to hear
54:48
that a little bit you know and I go into
54:50
going to Bo Jackson question rooftop
54:53
reacts don't you miss the mess a little
54:55
bit and she kind of said I could feel
54:58
that kind of yeah but I am differently
55:06
because when Diane says you know when
55:08
mr. peanut butter says yeah we could
55:10
have been too successful both book
55:11
writer she's not wincing because she
55:12
wants to get back together with him
55:14
she's wincing because he's a terrible
55:15
book writer
55:16
she's a very she's very much a serious
55:17
writer and here comes this idiot who's
55:19
written a very successful yeah that's a
55:22
good take and also I feel like mr.
55:23
peanut butter he has no how can I say
55:27
boundaries like he tries everything even
55:29
if he's bad at it
55:30
he tries every single thing
55:33
and it kind of takes away like if I if I
55:37
were you know a writer and it were my
55:39
field I would not just want anybody
55:44
making this book who you know I know
55:47
with his like I've put so much time into
55:54
this I have that had a whole episode
55:55
about going crazy because of this and
55:57
here could here he comes and just writes
55:58
a book and he's very successful I think
56:00
that's the wins yeah okay mm-hmm just
56:04
wanted to make sure that we just so
56:07
let's go on to Diane how do you feel
56:11
about the portrayal of antidepressants
56:13
on the mind at that episode that was
56:15
absolutely brilliant that was such a
56:18
good episode that one really resonated a
56:20
lot and just the way that like it's hard
56:23
when you're a creative person and you
56:24
also have mental health problems because
56:26
a lot of cuz there is the fear the
56:29
constant fear that you are going to lose
56:31
your creativity and what therapist will
56:33
tell you is well then you're going to
56:34
learn how to work out have a wellspring
56:35
of happiness but no great art comes from
56:37
happiness it's all comes from pain and
56:40
the minute you disconnect from the
56:41
source of pain where does your art come
56:44
from that's a really difficult question
56:46
to grapple with and it was perfectly
56:48
handled and so creatively done with a
56:50
lot of really good callbacks forward and
56:52
back absolutely so which was really well
56:54
done I loved that episode pain may be a
56:56
good motivator but Diane's book was
57:00
specifically about her pain and she was
57:04
mentally cut off from that altogether if
57:07
she just said I want to just paint a
57:09
picture then yeah you could paint you
57:10
know rainbows and trees but when your
57:13
goal is to go to this place and you're
57:16
physically cut off what happened
57:18
actually basically wrote a book of
57:19
rainbows and trees in the beginning I
57:25
didn't know how to read guy his
57:27
interaction with Diane and what she
57:29
truly needed he gaves supportive words
57:31
but he seemed to have kept his distance
57:33
and I was kind of worried that he was
57:35
neglecting her and not really giving
57:37
what she needed but upon watching it
57:39
again I think he really did try to do
57:41
the best he could and I think he was the
57:43
other normal person I don't think people
57:44
like yeah I don't think I
57:46
I mean look people who have mental
57:48
health issues don't know how to handle
57:50
them what is your what is your boyfriend
57:52
or your girlfriend or your partner who
57:53
does not have mental health issues what
57:55
are they supposed to know about it right
57:56
so I mean I think he was doing the best
57:58
he could and I recognized that mm-hmm
58:01
and in the end we know yeah mm-hmm yeah
58:04
I loved how again that was very
58:06
drama-free yes it was not like a big
58:08
deal there wasn't any episode of Diane
58:10
having a neurotic breakdown because of
58:12
it it was just yeah we got married yeah
58:14
yeah we worked out our stuff off-camera
58:15
and it was fine I really loved the quote
58:18
and you know it's something that you
58:19
know a lot people deal with and when
58:21
they were out on the roof and Bojack
58:24
asked her how would you learn to trust
58:26
it happiness mm-hmm I didn't but I trust
58:30
him
58:30
yeah and that was really sweet to me and
58:33
sometimes that's all we can do is just
58:36
have that take that leap of faith not
58:38
even on yourself but on a situation and
58:40
on a person and hope that they don't
58:42
fail you I mean a lot of characters put
58:44
their faith in PO Jack right and he
58:46
ultimately failed them in some ways
58:47
right yeah but she took a chance on this
58:49
other man and for right now as as far as
58:52
we know it's working out well yeah I
58:54
like that she connected with Sonny he I
58:59
love the scene where he just starts
59:01
crying in the diner and she was just
59:04
trying to make conversation but the
59:06
worst possible way yeah I mean he he was
59:09
such a teenage boy like that was a
59:10
really nice portrayal of a teenage boy I
59:12
think teenage boys wouldn't think that
59:14
but I think just if you are an older
59:16
person and you've ever been around a
59:18
teenage boy it's just it's very accurate
59:20
like yeah my brother who graduates high
59:23
school this year congratulations welcome
59:27
to the real world
59:27
I can definitely not set out to Jamie
59:31
yeah yeah you know speaking of drama
59:35
though the whole how Diane phrased oh
59:38
you know my boyfriend used or my the guy
59:42
who used to be my boyfriend used to do
59:44
this and she kept using that language
59:45
you're like oh no that did does she and
59:47
I break up and she finally without that
59:49
ring you're like yeah that was that was
59:53
that was fun can we talk about how
59:58
Bojack acts if she missed LA
60:00
and she's like you know miss is the
60:02
wrong word I think there are people as
60:04
you talked about people who help you
60:06
become the person you end up being and
60:08
you could be grateful for them even if
60:09
they weren't meant to be in your life
60:11
forever
60:12
and she said I'm glad I knew you too and
60:16
you know when butch I asked if he'd be
60:19
funny if this is the last time we saw
60:20
each other
60:22
Diane looks away yeah and sadness and
60:27
it's also metaphor it being the last
60:31
time we had an audience see them in new
60:32
situations I think that's what I also
60:34
put into that yeah and that big the
60:36
beginning of the episode is that was the
60:37
shot of those two sitting on the roof
60:39
and the the flat mind
60:40
heart monitor mhm so yeah it's the death
60:42
of that friendship definitely but yeah
60:45
you know there's that whole hokey saying
60:48
that goes around on social media some
60:49
people are in your life for a reason
60:50
some four seasons some for a lifetime
60:52
and that's a goofy annoying me but it's
60:54
very true it is yeah yeah and you know
60:57
though they were there for each other
60:58
for a season but some not all
60:59
friendships are meant to last a lifetime
61:01
yeah and you can't force it yeah so I
61:06
want to get to this article that I read
61:08
oh sorry
61:09
really quickly about Diane I love how
61:11
they didn't make a big deal ever weight
61:12
gain oh it was just bigger and they left
61:14
it alone they didn't make it a big deal
61:16
she wasn't on a diet she wasn't freaking
61:17
out she freaked out a lot about a little
61:19
bit because of the end of depressants at
61:20
the end of the previous season but this
61:22
season she was just bigger and died mad
61:24
about it very cool I want to get to this
61:31
vulture article I read it's written by
61:32
Jan Cheney I think she's been covering
61:34
Bojack for vulture time and she's a
61:36
fantastic writer and she talked about
61:38
being in the series Diane is kind of
61:41
lost in a late rying to find herself
61:43
Bojack thinks he knows what he wants and
61:45
wants to be seen as such and admired for
61:49
that but by the end of the season Diane
61:51
has found herself and on the flip
61:54
Bojack is more unsure than ever trying
61:56
to figure himself out and you know true
61:58
to what she said she might she might not
62:00
have become the woman she is without
62:02
meeting Bojack and she also helped him
62:04
become the more moral person that he is
62:08
as let me leave him they definitely gave
62:11
and took away from each other
62:13
the scene where she the language she
62:15
said you know thank you and she's sorry
62:18
mm-hmm
62:19
and thank you hmm I was really touching
62:22
mm-hmm
62:23
and let's I mean we're kind of glossing
62:25
over this a bit but Diane had legit
62:27
reasons to be shitfire pissed at Bojack
62:29
how do you call somebody just before you
62:32
and basically blame them for your own
62:34
suicide attempt yeah before just before
62:37
you do it I mean I would and then you
62:39
know that's a horrible thing to do to
62:41
somebody and you know a lot of well I'm
62:44
sure will get here when we talk about
62:45
bojack's I'm gonna leave it that comment
62:46
for later but yeah that's a horrible
62:49
thing to do she had every right to know
62:50
because that's a toxic an awful thing to
62:52
do to somebody and it would really be
62:54
detrimental for them too safe to stay
62:55
friends for him and for her yeah so you
62:58
know there's it's not like the
63:01
relationship just naturally petered out
63:02
there were legit reasons for them to not
63:04
be in each other's life anymore sir
63:05
totally why do you think she said thank
63:10
you to Bojack they were good friends at
63:13
some point I mean I don't know I mean
63:17
she did remember when she came back from
63:18
Vietnam and she pretended like she was
63:21
still there or no she was out with that
63:23
that that rich philanthropist yeah and
63:26
she in like Bojack let her crash at her
63:29
place when she was just spiraling out of
63:30
control and I saw her thank you and I'm
63:33
sorry as all so meta is she talking to
63:37
the audience is she the audience telling
63:41
Bojack you know thank you for teaching
63:42
us all lessons or entertaining us at the
63:45
invades this is entertainment that this
63:47
characters expense mm-hmm you know
63:49
apologizing for the rough life he's
63:50
endured assuring him that you know maybe
63:52
he can have a more peaceful life even
63:54
though we'll never see it to the end
63:55
because she won't she won't be there in
63:57
neither will we
63:58
that's something I kind of took from it
64:00
I think she was thinking
64:02
Bojack for all all of the good and all
64:09
the bad even though the bad was pretty
64:11
bad yeah but the fact that she met
64:15
Bojack and the fact that literally
64:19
without him she would not be where she
64:23
was she would not have grown she would
64:25
not have you know
64:26
taking the jobs that she did and that
64:29
kind of thing like I think I think she
64:32
was just thinking
64:33
Bojack for existing because he did
64:37
challenge him challenge her sometimes
64:38
yeah I mean what however badly it ended
64:41
are actually well it ended really
64:43
ultimately they were friends and you
64:45
know sometimes when you intentionally
64:46
decide to end a friendship just like
64:48
when you intentionally decide to end a
64:50
relationship you do say thank you
64:52
because they're the good times are good
64:53
but for whatever reason it can't
64:55
continue I mean that's kind of what open
64:57
communication looks like it's true yeah
64:59
and I think all right it might sound a
65:01
little yeah but like I really appreciate
65:04
that they kept their relationship
65:05
platonic mm-hmm because early on in the
65:08
show there were a few times when I
65:10
thought you know well they're gonna get
65:12
together probably that kind of thing but
65:14
legit it was a platonic friendship full
65:18
of love and and effort and you know good
65:23
times bad times that kind of thing right
65:25
so I really appreciated that and she
65:27
even encouraged it right one of the one
65:29
heard her benders she's like come on man
65:30
were rude and you're army together
65:31
that's right and he was in the right
65:33
mind to say you know what no I'm not
65:35
gonna do say that's one of Jack's finest
65:37
moments so maybe that that is included
65:41
obviously in that thank you yeah life's
65:43
a bitch and then you die sometimes
65:45
life's a bitch and you keep living it's
65:48
a nice night though let's not worry
65:50
about the future right now let's not
65:51
attack Netflix for taking this away from
65:55
us let's enjoy this moment right here
65:57
and that was another minimal moment for
66:00
me they've been talking about not let's
66:02
not worry about our friendship
66:03
probably not lasting passes conversation
66:06
let's just enjoy what we have and let's
66:09
let's not worry about Bojack coming
66:10
around for Season seven through you know
66:12
twenty you know that we would love to
66:14
have I think you know we're all morning
66:21
the end of this show but for now let's
66:22
collectively as fans just enjoy the good
66:24
times we had and be grateful to the
66:26
creators the voice actors and the
66:28
animators to bring in this masterpiece
66:30
to our life and then keep living I saw a
66:33
good status yesterday that said Bojack
66:36
is not therapy yes
66:39
yeah exactly and a lot to be said yeah
66:42
it is that that a year long Netflix
66:45
subscription is the equivalent of one
66:47
therapy session yeah I mean a lot of
66:51
people looked at this for a long time we
66:53
talked about this on the last show a lot
66:55
of men especially looked at the show as
66:57
oh this is a reason our excuse for me to
66:59
keep on being a dirtbag mm-hmm and then
67:02
the show kind of wasn't in season five
67:04
mm-hmm
67:05
kind of turned that on its head said no
67:07
no no it's not this is about this is
67:08
about you getting better this is not
67:11
excuse for you to do it you want to do
67:13
to be toxic and on that note let's get
67:16
to our main character speaking of toxic
67:20
you know with the biggest takeaway I had
67:23
from Bojack this season is and I'm glad
67:26
that they said it speaking of
67:27
meta-commentary
67:28
talking about your problems is not a
67:31
substitute for fixing those problems
67:32
mm-hmm he did those interviews he
67:35
admitted to everything but that didn't
67:37
mean the problems were fixed it just
67:39
meant he was aware of them I can know my
67:42
arm is broken but if I don't go get a
67:43
cast it's not gonna heal mm-hmm so yeah
67:46
and I mean Bojack is a perfect example
67:47
of that I really liked that because I
67:49
think a lot of people tend to announce
67:52
their problems constantly thinking that
67:53
that is helping them heal but not
67:55
necessarily definitely true like it's
68:03
it's a it's a quote on there's a quote
68:06
like on my Kakao ID or whatever and like
68:09
I got it from one of those Facebook
68:11
quotes too but it really resonated with
68:13
me and there are probably other
68:15
variations of it but trauma is not your
68:19
fault
68:19
but healing is your responsibility yeah
68:22
and like I will forever die by that
68:25
quote because like after my breakup last
68:29
year like my ex he had a lot of trauma
68:31
that weighed very heavily on our
68:35
relationship and because of that you
68:39
know there was just so much tension and
68:41
things like that and finally I think I I
68:45
think this is why I really like Todd
68:47
when he stood up for himself finally I
68:49
told my ex like you know I cannot be the
68:52
target for your trauma any
68:53
and he said that was when he got it and
68:56
like he he tried you know he tried to do
68:59
things or whatever long story short long
69:00
story short relationship broke up but
69:03
that's okay because now that quote like
69:06
I learned so much from that relationship
69:08
and now I'm I literally live by that
69:11
quote like I have things about myself it
69:13
you know aren't perfect like I
69:15
definitely know that I have some toxic
69:17
characteristics just like you know most
69:19
other people but other people I'm trying
69:21
to work on it mm-hmm you know like I
69:24
don't want to end up like Bojack I think
69:26
like Bojack is such a fantastic show
69:29
because it's like a mirror looking at
69:32
the possibility of yourself maybe not
69:35
like you know the absolute possibility
69:37
this is what you will become
69:38
but like definitely it makes you think
69:41
man I kind of I kind of have some of
69:44
those same thoughts and behavior yeah I
69:46
think a lot of us can can see a lot of
69:48
ourselves and a lot of those characters
69:50
are you know just seeing our own
69:53
relationships yeah relationships are
69:56
hard relating to other people is
69:58
difficult oh yeah it's just it's part of
70:01
life and you know it's nice to see that
70:02
reflected even if it's a very surrealist
70:04
ik take it's nice to see that reality
70:06
reflected I think we tend to over
70:08
romanticize a lot of things yeah in most
70:10
pop media and Botox pretty ugly and you
70:13
know I think we need to see that as well
70:16
totally and it pulls out the beauty in
70:17
that ugliness it's nice not only just
70:20
him I liked the different factions of
70:22
friends about how he should handle once
70:26
the story got revealed I like the
70:28
stories coming out about cerulean and
70:30
you had Diane like dude you need to just
70:33
fess up and just go through this and
70:36
then you had Todd kind of you know dude
70:38
I loved the bit where they were all
70:41
having this sorry you don't mean it
70:42
where they were having that powwow in
70:44
his off yes the University and you don't
70:48
cuz we already know what's happened so
70:49
they did a really good job of kind of
70:50
cutting back and forth so when they cut
70:52
away from him before he tells the story
70:54
that he thinks this is about which is
70:56
that girl in New Mexico and then they
70:58
cut back and everybody's like oh well
71:00
that that's not good but that's not
71:01
illegal and Todd's like no but that's
71:03
actually really sky like the Todd was
71:05
the voice of reason there where the
71:06
we're busy trying to play
71:07
captain save-a-ho and talk was like nah
71:10
you know you were wrong right mm-hmm
71:12
and in Carolyn's trying to spin in the
71:14
Diane's like yo I'm I can't be part of
71:17
this I I'm out and then you start seeing
71:19
that fracture and here this is kind of
71:24
hard working for carat was just Caroline
71:26
when you know she was like I've loved
71:29
you for 25 years that kind of love you
71:32
only get when you're young and stupid
71:33
when I tell my daughter the story about
71:35
the great love of my life I wanted to
71:38
have a happy ending
71:39
foreshadowing to her actually having a
71:41
happy ending with Judah yeah but here
71:43
both Bojack is really trying to take
71:45
responsibility is it possible letting me
71:48
go is the happy ending yeah and you know
71:52
good for him for standing up and you
71:53
really think he's doing a he'll face
71:55
turn he's really turning over himself
71:57
around you really think he's starting to
71:59
get it
72:00
mm-hmm and I wrote I read it for him so
72:02
hard up until he decides to do the
72:04
second interview and I knew yeah after
72:08
that first interview I was like wow look
72:10
at Bojack horseman learning things and
72:11
then he agreed to do the second one and
72:13
everybody tells him no and he does it
72:17
anyway but it just goes to show again
72:19
talking just cuz you can talk about your
72:21
problems doesn't mean you solve them
72:22
yeah it doesn't mean that everyone's
72:24
gonna accept that it's cool too oh yeah
72:26
because again if you haven't solved it
72:27
why would people accept it yeah saying
72:30
yes I have a problem it's not the same
72:32
as saying there is no problem anymore or
72:34
I'm taking positive steps to fix this
72:36
problem right and it's not the first
72:39
time that he did that in the show either
72:40
like it was a pattern of you know
72:43
toxicity totally and I think that at
72:47
that point that was the final straw for
72:49
princess caroline's oh yeah definitely
72:51
because she told him not to do it and he
72:52
did it anyway she had that great
72:54
conversation with him in the parking lot
72:55
afterwards right yeah the other thing
72:59
though I mean again nothing is nothing
73:02
is ever really black and white
73:03
everything is always in shades of grey
73:05
and both all of the characters are very
73:07
much that as well in Bojack most of all
73:09
he's very he's not he's not the worst
73:12
person on earth but he's not a great guy
73:14
either and there are definitely a lot of
73:16
facets to him and those interviews
73:17
showed two of the biggest ones very
73:19
clearly yes
73:20
mm-hmm some that I really didn't think
73:22
about until they piece it all together
73:24
like wow this guy really has a a real
73:27
pattern mm-hmm I mean he treated men
73:29
wrong too but there been a lot of
73:31
minutes like that he's really but the
73:33
women catch at the hardest yes
73:35
absolutely yeah and I think it's because
73:39
the women invest in trying to make him
73:41
better so it seems like it's a betrayal
73:43
almost the way he treats them yeah
73:44
butter has been like yeah man like
73:46
crashed the house whatever but he's not
73:48
like really deeply emotionally involved
73:50
with exactly
73:51
neither's Todd yeah mm-hmm the women
73:53
tried to fix him exactly mm-hmm so I
73:56
don't want to spend too much more time
73:57
because we're running late yeah we are
73:59
someone asked a question to you ladies
74:01
as ladies do you think has been squid do
74:10
you think Bojack has been punished
74:12
enough so so he had to pay five million
74:18
dollars to the saralyn family he lost
74:21
his house I mean you see Mila seemingly
74:23
he's lost almost everything he owns he
74:26
went to jail for 14 months his friends
74:30
and family have distanced themselves
74:31
from him is that enough I mean he
74:36
assisted in the murder or not this
74:39
murder but and the overdose of someone
74:44
do you feel like he's been punished
74:46
enough that's hard to say I'll let you
74:52
say something first about this because I
74:53
need to unwrap this in my head a little
74:56
bit more okay I think I really want him
75:01
to get it I really want him to fully
75:04
understand the the gravity of what he's
75:07
done but at the same time like I said
75:10
it's been a pattern over and over again
75:12
throughout the last six seasons he's
75:14
done something and it ends up being
75:17
terrible somehow his friends usually a
75:21
woman or you know someone saves him and
75:23
then he kind of gets it but then he does
75:25
it again and I want to say by the end
75:28
okay this is this is it like he's he's
75:32
in jail and all this stuff has happened
75:34
he's finally starting to to realize the
75:37
impact that he has on people's lives but
75:40
there's always this part of me that's
75:42
thinking mmm even if it's even if the
75:45
show doesn't can doesn't continue or
75:48
even if it's off-camera or whatever
75:49
there's always a part of me that's gonna
75:51
think he's probably gonna go back to
75:53
being the old Bhoja I think he feels the
75:55
same way and he talked to Todd he
75:57
laments you know leaving jail soon
75:59
because he see it out of trouble there
76:01
he doesn't have to make many choices
76:02
what happens when he gets out so there
76:05
is that real fear kind of on the same
76:09
page issue the point of punishment isn't
76:10
just to do mean things back to somebody
76:12
who's mean the point is to correct bad
76:15
behavior and I don't think I mean you
76:20
see this all the time in real life a lot
76:21
of people try very hard to correct bad
76:24
behavior but that doesn't mean that it
76:25
fixes the problem it doesn't mean that
76:27
they're able to do it it takes a lot of
76:29
work both introspectively and
76:32
behaviorally to actually do that so I
76:35
don't know if it matters if bojack's
76:38
been punished enough or not he's been
76:39
punished but is there ever really and
76:41
enough for that is there ever really I
76:45
mean I don't know what do you think
76:46
Brendon I think something important
76:49
about this show particularly this finale
76:54
is that they present many sides of an
77:00
issue
77:01
Kancil culture mm-hmm how people can
77:04
have short-term memories how people can
77:06
try to take responsibility how they can
77:08
brush it under the rug there was that
77:10
kind of Mel Gibson stand-in who was a
77:12
real douche there was that walrus guy
77:14
who's like that Bill Cosby character the
77:19
show never really I don't think said
77:21
anything too definitive about what's the
77:24
right that mean yeah but I don't think
77:26
it's that kind of show it's know they're
77:27
not gonna start preaching to you in the
77:28
last episode and that's and that's what
77:29
I think is yeah
77:30
I don't have an answer for this I think
77:32
your answers about we just want him to
77:35
get it I mean he definitely needs to
77:38
probably face some hardship in order to
77:40
understand the gravity of his mistakes
77:43
and his choices
77:47
I don't know if Bojack as a character
77:49
can get it though not everybody can not
77:51
everybody does yeah if you just look
77:55
let's be real if he was ever going to
77:57
get it after the death of saralyn was
77:59
when that was going to happen right well
78:02
I think he also felt fell into a kind of
78:06
it that I think a lot of people deal
78:09
with is this horrible thing happened
78:12
this defines me now I can't grow from
78:14
and this is just who I am and I might as
78:16
well just give up to to fade and just be
78:19
this person and they don't see any other
78:21
way out it's like saying you know like
78:23
suicide this is just it this is what I
78:25
have to do I can't see anything past
78:27
past this right so you know I I don't
78:34
want to give up on him in that sense not
78:36
something you are giving up one of it at
78:37
all either but I'm saying that the show
78:41
often touches on issues cancel culture
78:45
that kind of behavior addiction is their
78:48
way out is there not we're gonna present
78:50
some nuance and different takes on it
78:54
but we're not you said not being too
78:55
preachy about it mm-hmm yeah every don't
78:59
have much to add I think that's for me I
79:02
would defer to ladies on that in regards
79:03
to how he was treated how he treated
79:05
them and such but I don't think we'd
79:07
have any more definitive answers I mean
79:09
it's not that kind of show like you said
79:10
there's a lot of nuance to it and I
79:12
think it's interesting that so many of
79:14
bojack's friends are women at the end of
79:15
the day because I mean every woman knows
79:17
a couple of toxic dudes but you've just
79:19
been friends for so long and that
79:21
toxicity reveals it's all slowly and you
79:24
look at him in you're like okay I don't
79:25
want to fix you but I've just known you
79:27
for so long and I know that at your
79:28
heart you're not trying to be this guy
79:30
it's just that the world lets you do it
79:32
mmm-hmm you know yeah so I mean I don't
79:35
know it's it's tricky but I think that
79:37
that's the beauty of it you get to think
79:39
about these kinds of things you to look
79:40
at your relationships for the more
79:41
critical eye by seeing them reflected by
79:43
pig people and horse guys let's talk
79:46
about that penultimate episode with Bo
79:48
Jack having dinner with all of the
79:50
people in his life so again I go back to
79:55
the the Jin Cheney article which talked
79:58
about
79:59
everyone is dining on food that
80:00
represents how they died mm-hmm
80:02
yeah I noticed that yeah right so you
80:04
have herb who died of a peanut allergy
80:08
he's eating nuts and you have
80:12
what's-her-name
80:13
what's what's Bojack bojack's mom's name
80:15
I forgot Oh Jack's mom yes what mom is
80:19
eating what we think is nursing home
80:22
food mm-hmm and of course protec has a
80:24
plate of pills yeah just that him
80:27
talking and that that's black sludge
80:29
just yeah eerily in the background it's
80:33
just so Beatrice oh yes yeah cause she's
80:37
the only one who doesn't have like a
80:38
horsey name right yeah mm-hmm I'll be
80:44
honest I they were it was a little
80:47
obvious what they were going for they
80:49
were trying to come up with another
80:50
episode that was gonna wow people like
80:52
the one where he's at the funeral what's
80:54
it called from yeah like that was been a
80:57
while people like free churro but I
81:00
could kind of see what they were going
81:01
for a little too early on I could see
81:02
that they were trying to make one of
81:04
those deep pithy statements with the
81:05
writing and it didn't exactly it was
81:07
nice it was still very good but it
81:09
wasn't it didn't have the impact that I
81:11
think they were trying to go for for me
81:12
I liked some of the interpretations from
81:15
ghin Chaney man she said that she
81:20
interpreted butterscotch is in the form
81:22
of Secretariat the Secretariat committed
81:26
suicide right and in free churro
81:28
Bojack said that his mother told him
81:32
that butterscotch his father died in a
81:35
duel but now he's in his subconscious
81:38
really expressing that he knows that
81:40
really butterscotch committed suicide
81:42
right mhm and not just dying some simple
81:46
duel yeah there was all there was a lot
81:48
of really good stuff in there yeah yeah
81:50
yeah you know he's he's drinking the
81:52
water oh this tastes like a chlorine
81:54
does anybody else's water taste like
81:55
chlorine yeah yeah and that's when I
81:57
started to think oh wow this is fast
81:59
where he is now right yeah and I saw
82:02
what they were trying to do but for sure
82:03
visual and emotional impact Diane's
82:06
episode where she's writing was blew
82:09
this one out of the water even though
82:10
this was the one that I think they were
82:11
trying to make the way episode
82:12
I agree with you hmm I think I I do
82:16
agree that Diane's episode was was quite
82:19
good but I think I related more to this
82:21
episode because it was just it was
82:23
really haunting for me I don't know why
82:26
I think maybe that's just because you
82:29
know like I don't want to sound like
82:31
that person but like you know you have
82:33
those spots about death sometimes oh my
82:35
god last year I know where I'm that
82:37
person
82:38
last year like it was really tough for
82:40
me so I think you know of course like we
82:44
said earlier bull jack is in therapy but
82:46
this show was very helpful for me to
82:49
think through my feelings and to process
82:52
them and I think this episode helped me
82:55
process like my thoughts around death do
83:00
I fear it because Bojack he throughout
83:04
the show he you know kinda has this
83:07
fearlessness about his behavior but then
83:10
when he gets close to death he starts
83:13
feeling afraid you know like I'm not
83:15
ready and he starts looking out for
83:17
Diane you know can I stay on the phone
83:19
with you while this happens so I think
83:22
for me this was just a little bit more
83:24
impactful personal right it's a good
83:27
point about the whole thing about
83:28
fearing not fearing death until you're
83:30
close to it if you look at the
83:31
first-hand accounts of people who have
83:33
survived suicide attempts a lot of them
83:34
say that they feel like this is their
83:36
last option they're not scared to do it
83:38
until they try yeah until it's a reality
83:40
until the view from halfway down yeah
83:42
mm-hmm I think it's sad that also to
83:48
that even on the edge of death he still
83:53
couldn't imagine his father telling him
83:56
that he loved him it had to be in the
83:58
former Secretariat interesting hmm and
84:02
didn't catch that yeah yeah I mean we
84:06
think about how sad his way should be
84:08
with his mom because she's been in it
84:10
the most but yeah his father was super
84:13
toxic yeah and you know guys you can see
84:16
a lot of that but what we have seen I
84:19
mean with the mother there was sometimes
84:22
small kernels of goodness of warmth like
84:26
you know when he filed
84:27
connected with hurling mom mom do you
84:28
you see me and the father there was like
84:31
nothing yeah even at the end ever mm-hmm
84:35
yeah hmm actually there is a point
84:40
during the episode where I I thought
84:43
from the position of the characters and
84:45
from his appearance I thought that
84:48
Bojack symbolized becoming his father
84:51
because he was sitting at the head of
84:53
the table he looked quite old and tired
84:56
and he was going through a lot of you
84:59
know the toxic things in his life and I
85:02
thought oh my god he looks just like his
85:04
father
85:04
mm-hmm and he's like succumbing to this
85:07
like his father stick succumbed to his
85:09
failure take his own life and out Bojack
85:11
is ready to follow in his footsteps yeah
85:14
and like that the show you know when he
85:16
was ready to kind of accept that herb
85:18
was like yeah there's no afterlife this
85:20
is it this is just blackness yeah I
85:23
really like the character of herb in the
85:25
way that they've pulled him in in
85:26
flashbacks and just to show how he was
85:28
nothing but goodness to Bojack but and
85:30
he's the one man who caught it as hard
85:32
as the women in projects life did yeah
85:34
he was nothing but goodness and life to
85:35
go Jack Jack gave him nothing but pain
85:37
in return totally and it was it was
85:40
interesting to kind of see how he was
85:41
the one who was a squirting Bojack into
85:43
death mm-hmm because in a sense he gave
85:46
him life as a movie star a TV star yeah
85:49
yeah I don't know that episode there was
85:52
I I'm gonna go back and probably watch
85:55
the whole series and that episode might
85:56
have a different effect on me after I
85:58
watch everything again but yeah it's
86:00
interesting in the in the process of me
86:02
trying to take these Korean and Japanese
86:04
says I just registered for my first
86:06
screen test the one I'm actually gonna
86:08
see all the way through okay but I
86:11
started watching it in English with
86:13
Korean subtype yeah yeah but I also
86:15
watched it in Japanese with English
86:17
subtitles and the way that Bojack talks
86:20
is fascinating really I'm gonna have to
86:22
look that up yeah does he have that like
86:24
very well it isn't like he's like
86:28
doesn't have that similar kind of sound
86:31
it's no no he sounds like just a regular
86:35
dude like not like me I mean he he
86:39
sounds older
86:40
but not that like a gruff because that
86:44
gruffness and bojack's voice is so
86:46
iconic in us yeah interesting yeah
86:51
blur net probably his second best
86:54
performance next to Lego Batman I don't
86:57
know job was pretty good although that
86:58
show would not respect was not it was
87:00
not just stuff what are you talking
87:01
about
87:02
Arrested Development watch this oh
87:03
really it was hilarious but it's got
87:06
some mad problematic bits in it that if
87:07
you watch it now it's like oh my gosh
87:09
what was this yeah yeah my intro to him
87:12
was was like a Batman in no good
87:14
darkness no parents why did we let him
87:20
get started this is your favorite movie
87:22
you're about to quote us the death I
87:23
don't know okay okay moving on moving on
87:25
let's move on we know it Internet season
87:28
six is there anything that you would
87:30
have liked to have seen if they had the
87:34
chin if this was not the last season I
87:38
think it was a beautiful ending it it
87:40
went somewhere I wasn't expecting it to
87:42
go I wasn't expecting project to go to
87:44
jail that's for certain
87:45
yeah yeah I mean I think they really
87:46
took a big risk and ended it on a really
87:49
beautiful note and one thing I like
87:53
about the shows that it always did
87:54
surprise me there wasn't anything I
87:55
could predict about it necessarily so I
87:57
don't know I mean if they had been able
87:59
to continue it for a while that would
88:01
have been nice but I don't know what
88:02
they could have done or would have done
88:04
but it ended nicely yeah I agree
88:07
yeah I think I'd said this earlier but I
88:10
really want to know what hollyhock wrote
88:13
in the letter mm-hmm I think a lot of
88:15
people feel that like I do like that we
88:17
don't get to see it but at the same time
88:20
it's like what did she say yeah she I
88:23
mean I said pickles was put on a bus
88:25
hollyhock put herself on a bus she was
88:28
like i'm peacing out I don't need to be
88:29
involved in this toxic scene that you're
88:31
in so I'm not gonna do it and I really
88:33
like that which is interesting we saw
88:35
more of her best friend than we saw her
88:36
mmm this season true I think if we had a
88:42
new season number one I think it would
88:47
have been cool to have seen Bojack in
88:49
jail more that's a year of his life and
88:51
that could've been a very transformative
88:53
year I mean obviously
88:54
was hmm they talked about his
88:56
experiences there with his Jail acting
88:59
group we've been cool to see even just
89:01
on a comic level just see that
89:02
engagement would be cool to see that
89:04
dynamic as well as what kind of people
89:06
he would have encountered in there he
89:08
might have come a come face to face with
89:10
more underprivileged people and got
89:13
perspective from them in the audience
89:16
you know we get perspective from women
89:18
about how he mistreats them and we've
89:21
gotten a lot of perspective on the show
89:22
face female etc but there wasn't a whole
89:27
lot of that kind of underprivileged poor
89:31
class perspective and I think that could
89:33
have been interesting hmm well I guess
89:37
several of the character started out
89:38
quite poor but how would you get that
89:40
that perspective my misunderstanding
89:43
yeah what do you mean I don't know
89:45
that's why I'm trying to ask well we've
89:46
kind of just been in Hollywood the whole
89:48
time yeah and I an you know is
89:50
working-class person but it's not like
89:52
she was ever really yeah once she moved
89:55
out from mr. peanut butters apartment
89:57
she kind of was struggling her own but
89:59
it she was still living away you know
90:02
and yeah I never really felt like a deep
90:04
struggle I it would be interesting to
90:05
see life outside of Hollywood like where
90:09
other people came from besides like her
90:11
family in Boston I see what you're
90:16
saying but I guess that would have to be
90:18
almost a different show because
90:19
everybody else I mean everybody else but
90:21
Bojack came from pretty poor start from
90:24
a poor start I mean let's look at
90:25
Princess Carolyn's beginning yeah but
90:28
that's not how we see her there though
90:30
everyone has met in LA as pretty
90:33
successful people truly been cool to see
90:35
maybe Bojack trying to assert how fucked
90:38
up his life is in jail and then every
90:40
one of Jill's like dude I see what you
90:43
mean yeah but I feel like that would
90:44
just be a really would that would change
90:45
the whole dynamic of the show because it
90:47
part of it is about how that but in
90:49
silly and self-absorbed hollywoo types
90:51
are or Hollywood now yes yes interesting
90:54
you know you know I'm not a writer yeah
90:56
so how they could balance the comedy
90:59
with the drama and they're interesting I
91:01
don't know although it would be an
91:02
interesting spin off Oh Jack in jail be
91:05
like a short a short film that can make
91:07
maybe yeah because they've got that up
91:09
with that random episode of horsing
91:10
around on our our short of Bo Jackie in
91:14
jail yeah Bojack behind bars scared
91:18
straight
91:19
so Ralph Bob wax burg himself said an
91:23
interview with vulture that he had more
91:24
seasons and that the show could have
91:26
gone on for a few more years hmm but
91:28
Netflix pulled the plug so I want to
91:29
just read some quotes before we get out
91:31
of here
91:32
he said you know it's a business we've
91:35
got to do what's right for them and six
91:37
years is a very healthy run for a TV
91:39
show frankly I'm amazed we got this far
91:42
so I can't complain I think if we
91:44
premier it on any other network or even
91:46
on Netflix on any other time than we did
91:49
I don't know if we would have gotten to
91:51
the second season a lot of things on
91:53
Netflix don't get second seasons I think
91:56
it's a very busy landscape it's hard to
91:58
make an impression I think we just got
92:01
very lucky when we premiered which is
92:03
true there's a good article that said
92:05
you know the in a bull Jack marks the
92:07
end of an era for Netflix mm-hmm that
92:11
now as we know sometimes we get these uh
92:14
these cool seasons or even they're kind
92:17
of mediocre and they don't have a chance
92:18
to grow theirs cut yeah yeah yeah
92:21
because if you go back you know I
92:22
started going back and watching this
92:24
show again from the first episode and if
92:26
you watch the last episode of than the
92:28
first episode right after oh my gosh
92:30
that show was weird when it started Oh
92:31
totally it's so strange I don't know how
92:34
I ever got into it wasn't like looking
92:35
back but yeah I think we're just in the
92:37
less experimental mode now because now
92:39
Netflix isn't established platform I
92:42
always have to preface when I talk my
92:44
friends about starting the show it
92:46
starts off a little wacky but once it
92:48
gets to like the later episodes
92:50
especially the last episode of the first
92:51
season you understand what it's all
92:53
about and then it goes from there are
92:56
usually preface it by like you know if
92:59
you if you're prone to depression you
93:01
might want to take a break maybe but you
93:04
know I think it's not just Netflix that
93:06
this is the end of an era for because
93:08
there's a lot of shows that are coming
93:09
to a close that started out that way and
93:11
I'm thinking of Steven universe where if
93:15
you watch the final movie and then you
93:18
go back and watch the very first episode
93:19
of the show
93:21
uh.what right it's so strange it takes a
93:24
long time to build up to this really
93:26
deeply emotionally emotional health
93:28
platform I gotta try I seen it no I told
93:32
you I watched my ex try to put me on to
93:35
the mink I watched like two episodes
93:37
yeah it's so good it's it's amazing but
93:41
yeah okay I'll be really honest with you
93:43
the first 10 episodes aren't important
93:45
but she will be sitting there going
93:49
whoosh do it but lastly I was pre turned
93:52
off it took me a while like I kind of it
93:54
was one of those things I turned it on
93:55
and was trying to watch it one of my
93:57
sisters is really into it so I was
93:58
trying to watch it because she was
93:59
telling me so much about it and I was
94:01
just watching it in the more I watched
94:02
it the more I worried for her like girl
94:07
this is what you like what is this and
94:09
then I don't know I can't remember what
94:10
episode it was but something happened
94:12
that made me really stop and look and
94:14
start paying attention and it's got cute
94:16
music and you know it's it's cute and
94:18
then all of a sudden you realize that
94:19
you're into this deeply emotional like
94:22
this very huge metaphor that's very
94:25
important okay yeah do you know what it
94:28
was I got about half of the first season
94:30
it was kind of like you like I'm not
94:32
doing this this is strange like Diamond
94:34
people what I'm gonna Spink and they
94:36
keep singing little cute guitar folk
94:37
songs I don't know I got other things to
94:39
watch yeah and so I started looking up
94:42
clips so I started looking up clips on
94:47
YouTube okay really quickly so we're
94:50
looking up clips on YouTube and because
94:52
I was looking for these clips like I
94:54
found a huge spoiler that actually made
94:57
me want to go back and see the whole
94:58
thing again so I could understand the
95:00
context for the spoiler because it is
95:01
really important because it is actually
95:03
really important to watch everything
95:04
that comes before because it makes the
95:06
spoiler awesome so I watched the whole
95:10
thing up to the beginning of the second
95:12
season and after that I was hooked okay
95:16
but it's a similar thing to oh you're
95:18
good I want to before we get out of here
95:21
I want to finish the quotes up and the
95:24
creator said he told Netflix that he
95:27
would appreciate if they told him prior
95:29
to the development OC the six if that
95:32
would be the last for Bojack so it
95:33
wasn't a thing where he made
95:34
season with the intention to keep going
95:36
and his cut off they let him know so he
95:38
could actually wrap this up neatly
95:40
that's good so that was really cool he
95:43
said that he would be open for Bojack in
95:47
a feature film or something like that
95:48
and he said he doesn't want to rule
95:49
anything out
95:50
he is very happy with where he left the
95:53
characters he's not itching to tell more
95:55
stories in this universe even though
95:57
there were more stories that would have
95:59
been happy he would have been happy to
96:00
tell so yeah it feels like and he said
96:04
it too like he in a Bojack on his own
96:07
terms and I think that's great as a
96:09
creator and for an audience for fans
96:11
let's try to leave it here because
96:12
they're looking in on us right audience
96:17
out there tell us what you all think of
96:18
Bojack and birds of prey this is our
96:21
show
96:22
oh really quickly Bojack out of five
96:24
margo martindale what are we rated I
96:26
read it a ten out of five additional
96:34
five character roles okay yeah this
96:37
includes this episode of blurred up if
96:38
you want to find us once again we're on
96:40
facebook at BTR DUP we're on instagram
96:42
at ble RDP or you pee and we're on
96:45
twitter at BL ERD you check us out on
96:47
bird calm where can I find you
96:49
equal-opportunity reader on Instagram
96:51
and Facebook you got like 500 followers
96:53
no hard I'm terrible at it yeah I only
96:58
do a post a day great yeah great and
97:03
well I wish I had a page like that but
97:06
you can find my Instagram and keet
97:10
a and I Kotani and I post sometimes yeah
97:15
look me up alright y'all thank you very
97:17
much B's B's wash your hands
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Curator of the BlerdUp Podcast // Blerds out about: Comic Book Movies, Video Games, Hip-Hop, and Politics

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